Fandom

International Auxiliary Languages

Esperanto reformita

568pages on
this wiki
Add New Page
Talk0 Share

Original:

Patro nue kvu esten in cielo, sankte estan tue nomo, venan regito tue, estan volo tue, kom in cielo sik anku sur tero. Pano nue omnedie donan al nu hodiu e pardonan al nu debi nue, kom nu anku pardonen al nue debenti; ne kondukan nu in tento, sed liberigan nu de malbono.

Adapted (reflecting changes in vocabulary):

Patro nose kvu esten in cielo, sankte estan tue nomo, venan regno tue, estan volo tue, kom in cielo sik anku sur tero. Pano nose omnudie donan al nos hodiu e pardonan al nos debi nose, kom nos anku pardonen al nose debenti; ne kondukan nos in tento, sed liberigan nos de malbono.


From: Thomas Alexander <salivanto@...>
Date: Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:09 pm
Subject: The 1894 Pater Noster text

Hi everyone,

First a quick comment for Don Gasper. Thanks for your
interest, but I do not expect that I will be posting
a version of my 1894 presentation here -- at least not
any time soon. Most of what I am putting into the
presentation has been said here before - and a lot of
it by me. Also, before you made your request, I had
not given any thought to saving an electronic copy of
my outline. (I made many notes with pencil and paper
while reading, and I have been printing these up with
the goal of having everything in paper on a flip chart
to present.) It seems like a lot of work to then
retype everything as an e-mail, especially considering
that most of this information is freely available in
the archives of this list already.

One thing I noticed has to do with the Pater Noster
text in the reform. By the way, this is the only
actual text in the reform which I've been able to
find, although I've written a few of my own. I have
not succeeded to find reference a single person -
living or dead - other than myself and Zamenhof who
ever wrote anything in the reform.

What is worth pointing out here is that the Pater
Noster text (which I found in PVZ and in various
locations around the internet - including on web pages
belonging to members of this list here) was written
to demonstrate the *grammar* of the reform, and not
the final form of the language. Last night I made
a new translation (based on Z's original) which I
thought I'd share.

Original:

Patro nue kvu esten in cielo,
sankte estan tue nomo,
venan regito tue, estan volo tue,
kom in cielo sik anku sur tero.
Pano nue omnedie donan al nu hodiu
e pardonan al nu debi nue,
kom nu anku pardonen al nue debenti;
ne kondukan nu in tento,
sed liberigan nu de malbono.

Adapted (reflecting changes in vocabulary):

Patro nose kvu esten in cielo,
sankte estan tue nomo,
venan regno tue, estan volo tue,
kom in cielo sik anku sur tero.
Pano nose omnudie donan al nos hodiu
e pardonan al nos debi nose,
kom nos anku pardonen al nose debenti;
ne kondukan nos in tento,
sed liberigan nos de malbono.

One hesitation I have is whether the correct word for
"daily" is "omnedie" or "omnudie." If we think of
the word as "cxiu-taga", then Zamenhof's version
contains an error, even considering only the
previously published descriptions of the language,
since at that time (and after) "cxiu" was "omnu."
However, "cxiel" was "omnemaniere", so it's possible
to think of "omne-" as a prefix. If so, then it
should indeed be "omnedie" in both versions. An
alternate justification for "omnemaniere" would be
either to see it as a whole root, or to think of it
as "cxia-maniere", since "cxia" is "omne" in the
reform.

It's also interesting that the second sentence
starts out with an unmarked accusative.

Actually, Don, what I'd like to do with these notes
(after giving the presentation) is to work them up
into a more accessible description and discussion
of the project - including a two-way dictionary and
basic lessons as well as a study of the motivations
leading up to the reform. This could be published as
a book or web page.

Amike salutas,
Thomas/Tomaso ALEXANDER.

Ad blocker interference detected!


Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.